Team Scotland

[Jambo]

Alright, its been a bit quiet on here recently so I thought I try and start some sort of discussion. Here goes.

I've recently been pondering the popularity of boardgames at elg, which are broadly speaking self contained. Which teams would make the best stand alone version of blood bowl? I'm assuming it wouldn't be far from the 3rd ed box teams, but which other teams have the most unique playstyles etc. and would create the most interesting matches?

[Seamus]

Long Answer:

Interesting idea. I think the premise of your question needs some consideration though.

Would one really be looking to include the most unique teams in a two-team boxed game? Although my knowledge of two-player self-contained games is pretty limited isn't it more conventional to have two sides with subtle differences? At least more subtle than the contrast between dwarves and wood elves, for example. I suppose what I'm talking about is something along the lines of the 3rd ed box.

Perhaps I'm just being limited by my assumption that such a state is desirable and my wider experience of the diversity of blood bowl teams. I find it difficult to single out two that deserve special prominence or encapsulate the game more completely than Orcs and Humans.

I find your question of which two teams would make the most interesting games problematic too. The unique dynamic between two teams is only going to be interesting for a short amount of time. From then interest is going to have to flow from the players or from team customisation.

I suppose the unacknowledged topic of discussion here is "What would a Blood Bowl version of the new Space Hulk look like?" If Blood Bowl were to get a big-box, big-budget treatment then what would the ideal content be?

Space Hulk succeeds in creating a game from two totally contrasting sides because of entirely different playstyles and a variety of missions and maps. Though there is massive contrast between certain Blood Bowl teams, these differences are totally dwarfed by the differences between Terminators and Genestealers in Space Hulk. On top of that you've got a variety of maps and missions.

Blood Bowl lacks these things.

I know it's a coward's answer but I think four teams would realistically be required, either all in one box or as two alternative versions of the box.

I suppose I should admit that I suspect my inability to confront the notion of a self-contained two-team box is largely due to my immersion in Blood Bowl as we know it with its variety of teams.

Short answer:

Chaos Dwarves and Wood Elves. Probably not a definitive answer but I think it's a decent enough one.

Or how about Necromantic and High or Dark Elves?

[Jambo]

Yeah, a poorly phrased question to blame. I was really thinking about a few teams rather than just two. Trying to keep the question brief probably didn't help, but I guess the question really is how few teams could be included while still covering each of the different playstyles/attributes.

I think if the restriction is two teams then the traditional humans v orcs combination is probably the best, for most of the reasons you stated.

[inoculator]

There was a topic on TFF which shows they are planning a new box set release later in the year - supposedly containing 4 teams.

Looks like someone at GW had the same thought - which for them is quite something when it comes to BB

[DonShula]

If GW are trying to make some cash out of this

Wood Elves - New plastic models would make the box appealing to the existing Fanboys.

Dwarves - They have a chubbie for them anyway.

Orcs - They have always been in the box
Humans - See above

If they ignore Orcs and Humans then could replace with

Norse - Human enough
Amazons - Semi naked chicks, say no more.

[Jambo]

The rumour that GW are re-doing bloodbowl has been around for ages, does the latest version have more to it?

I doubt that 4 teams is enough to capture the variety of teams that the CRP has, but there's definitely reduncancy in there.

For instance Halflings are just rubbish boring Goblins, however, is the Ogre team more fun to play as/against? Are Lizardmen too similar to consider? Or do they offer something different?

[Seamus]

Aye. I've heard those rumours too. Not seen anything to suggest that they're more than that.

If we are talking about a big box treatment then I think 4 teams would probably be the limit. Especially if the same care was to be taken with the miniatures as was with Space Hulk.

I think there remains the issue that Space Hulk - and I gather Dreadfleet, too - work as stand alone games by providing a campaign of missions that can be played consecutively or individually. Would a Blood Bowl box mirror this by suggesting that players play a two-person league? That doesn't seem that appealing. A narrative campaign might be more interesting where teams might not be equal in each game and might have narrative objectives beyond or instead of winning the match. I realise that's a rather left-field suggestion but I'm not sure how much appeal there'd be in a two man league in a box.

Should this discussion - despite being hypothetical - take into account GW business practices and attitudes to the various races? I've been removed from it for a while but I imagine they'd be reluctant to include a team that doesn't have a corresponding fantasy army. Admittedly all the undead teams could come under Tomb Kings and whatever the other undead faction is called these days but it would exclude Chaos Dwarves, Slann, Norse, Amazons, and Halflings. Thoughts? Would a big box incarnation of Blood Bowl inhabit the Warhammer universe?

Dwarves and Wood Elves are a fine suggestion and the strengths of including Humans and Orcs is clear but I'm not sure about those four together. Do people think humans deserve a place in a box designed to show off the quality of Blood Bowl? I'm not sure but they aren't a team that immediately excites me.

Although I've not played an Ogre team I suspect that one could comfortably replace them with lizards. That's not to say that they are entirely the same but there's a definite similarity of flavour. I suppose a relatively easy move is to reduce the elf teams from four to two. I'd support keeping Dark and Wood Elves of the four.

[Jambo]

There is the issue of how you'd make an appealing campaign for bloodbowl, but it has also sold well in the past simply by offering a limited selection of teams for 2 player play in one-off games. As an aside, this is the way I started bloodbowl and is still one of the most fun ways to play in my book, though I understand why people love the progression offered by league play.

I agree that GW have vested interests in which races get included in things like this, as shown by the blood bowl PC game. However, I'm more interested in which teams are most distinct rather than, as Dave puts it, which races GW has a chubby for.

The issue of whether blood bowl is a more appealing game if set in its own background or that of the warhammer world is an interesting one too, but I like both versions of the background so don't have too strong an opinion on that one.

I think any selection of teams wuold have to represent the different ways to play, for instance teams adept at passing, running and bashing would all be required. Also there are novelty teams like goblins that would make a strong case for inclusion.

Elves are typical of the way teams (by design) overlap, its easy to see the similarities between the Elf and High Elf teams, the Wood Elf and Skaven teams. Though there is a clear distinction between how Skaven and High Elves play. Which of these teams would be best to include in a stand alone version of the game?

[EvilGit]

This isnt the easiest answer to make. Ideally you'd need to show off the four main styles, but gw will always skew it towards armies they already have in warhamster, er I mean warhammer. Ideally you'll want a run, pass, bash and all round team in there.

If they went for 2 teams the its orcs and humans. If it was 4 then my choices would be humans, orcs, undead and an elf team of some description, probably high elves more for the passing style although pro would be a good choice too...
_________________
Got to have a bit of Buckfast for the Shareholders Meeting

[Iranian Spy]

Probably something that fits with the Fantasy Flight Team Manager with equal halves good guy/bad guy races. The Team Manager game has Wood Elves, Humans, Orcs, Dwarves, Chaos and Skaven.

Of those 4 I'd go with Orcs, Humans, Skaven and Dwarves with Wood Elves coming a close 5th since we'd have two pretty fast teams in Humans and Skaven - included Skaven since they're the fast bad guy team and also pretty definitive warhammer.
_________________
The artist formally known as "Shaheen"

PUGs Wanted! http://www.createforum.com/teamscotlandbb/viewtopic.php?t=560&mforum=teamscotlandbb

Need a Gamer? http://www.createforum.com/teamscotlandbb/viewtopic.php?p=13200&mforum=teamscotlandbb#13200

[Garrick]

My vote would be for a run, pass, bash and all round team and I think you should use 4 universally (i.e. outside the Warhammer world) recognised races: Human, Orc, Dwarf and one of the Elf teams, to cater for a wider public audience.

[Corvidius]

I agree with the idea that Orc, Humans, Dwarf and Wood Elf teams would work best.

I'd imagine a campaign could be worked in by having a series of games played in specific stadiums with set modifiers. Like a progression from cheap stadium up to the blood bowl final in the finest stadium kind of thing. The faster teams tend to have must faster progression so maybe the first game would be a standard BB game followed by a game in a stadium that makes passing harder, followed by one that makes it easier and finally the Blood Bowl which would have perfect weather or something like that.