thegirlsclub

[paulb]

My system of movement and power generation is very closely based on my Judo training. It's so close, that if I took snapshots of a point in a hip throw, it would match a similar snapshot of a point in a teardrop return.

Any martial art will teach you useful things that will apply to any other. A lot of these things are what I refer to as the high-end aspects of the art - focus, anticipation, "reading" your opponent, and Chi. They can also build discipline, enhance confidence, improve balance, movement, speed and strength, and simply make you aware of your body and how it moves. If you have time to supplement your SCA training with training in another art, I would encourage you to do so.

In regards to application to SCA heavy fighting, I've found that timing differences in applying power is the most difficult translation for those with training in the various Asian striking arts. The sword is much heavier than the hand, and requires the parts of the body to move nearly simultaneously to apply power. Often, people experienced in the Asian striking arts move their lower bodies too soon, in relation to the torso and arm. The timing of the power application is more similar to Judo.

I am completely in sympathy with your position in regards to the lack of structured training in the SCA. I would suggest that you try to do your best to conduct your own structured training - even if it is just you. You might even be able to recruit some others who share your point of view. If you are fortunate, perhaps you can talk your whole group into doing a short period of structured training just before everyone gets into armor.

Regards,

Paul

[Dorothea]

Hello everyone, and sorry for my lack of responding... Based on what I read, and your experiences above as well, I went ahead and started kickboxing. The reason for it being kickboxing in the end are that the club is close enough to us, and that my bf is doing MMA which they also have at that place, so now we can go to class together (I'm not doing MMA myself just yet, but I'll def. start once I start sparring)

Now a couple of months later doing kickboxing I do have some observations. I have only done practise so far, no sparring yet (starting that soon, then I bet I will have more to say, but here's a start).

The classes I go to are not "beginners" classes, but mixed from beginners to black belts... That means that I got straight into stuff that was, and still is in many cases way advanced for my meager level. I mean.. second class I went to we were doing jumping roundhouse kicks, and elaborate combinations (theme of the day: jumping kicks). Admittedly, I had a hard time implementing the kicks into my heavy fighting, but I am looking for ways!

So, here is a summary of what I learned in these two months:
- I have a much easier time keeping my natural competiveness out of fighting: I can distinguish better between "competition" and "training". This has to do with self confidence, of course, as one needs a good deal to not have to prove oneself all the time, even in practise. This may sound natural to some people... but this type of selfconfidence is deeply deeply rooted, and no rational thoughts in the world help changing it. The result is that I can relax much more in fighting, having a sense of "this is just like a pillowfight!" and so on. Needless to say, this is making a world of difference in my fighting, right there. (So much I won a tourney for the first time ever and came 5th in the unbelted at the same event!)

- I realized I have the SAME basic difficulties with kickboxing as I do with heavy fighting. For example, I am overly aggressive, I need to work on footwork, etc. The GREAT part with this is that here I can train these things 3-5 times a week, and they are DIRECTLY affecting my fighting as well!

- I am by far the best "newbie" in the class - I have so much for free from my years of heavy fighting. The things I have for free now are the not-so-obvious ones: an eye for the fight, a knowledge about what is important and what is not (for example when blocking) reaction time, ability to learn techniques, not being afraid of getting hit, etc.

- I learned that I should concentrate on "katas" to build my repertoire in heavy fighting for a while: Having some combinations I can retort to when tired/uninspired/at loss. I am very much a calculating and non-inituitive fighter, so it happens frequently that I "run out of ideeas". Same with shadowboxing, bag punching and "red man" beatings, and whatever else they expose us to there. I need to hardwire combinations.

So, anyway, thank you all for responding and all insights and thoughts are as always appreciated!
_________________
Dorothea Weberin, KSCA
Dun in Mara, Insulae Draconis, Drachenwald

[Slaine]

It's funny that I should come upon this thread exactly a year to the day from the last post.

I'm at a loss at where to begin looking for a martial arts studio. There are tons of them. I guess I don't care about style but I don't want to take a beginner class with little kids or a woman's self defense class. Do I just have to start calling all these places?

[Wrenn]

yes- and then many have a "first class free" deal so you can get a feel for it-
I'm LOVING the cross training
_________________
Adwen Wrenn, Squire to Sir Hrothgar Thorvaldsson

[Ruskovic]

there are two differnet types of Chinese martial art schools that you should look into:

1, shaolin / xiaolin based: force is generated by your massXacceleration, think force over finesse.
2, wudang / wutang based: force is generated by your opponent's massXacceleration in addition to your own massXacceleration, think finesse over force.

In my opinion,

the wushu shaolin school of ch'ang ch'uan (northern longfist) builds speed, endurance, coordination, and overall fitness via forms / taolou training, plyometrics and mobility footwork. This is heavily taught in all parts of the world as IWKFF is the international federation of the national sport of China.

The wushu wutang school of t'ai chi, bagua arts build leg strength, flexibility, and finesse in fighting via footwork drills and sparring, but not so much rooted footwork or mobility. Usually wushu based tai chi and bagua is shaolin based in its fighting, yet wutang based in it's form work.


Parkour fitness is good too. It really helps with the anerobic and coordination fitness aspects of training, especially when heavy on the plyometrics.

look at meetup dot com for classes or fitness groups in your area.

[Wrenn]

I'm taking a Mixed Martial Arts class (MMA based on Brazilian Ju Jistsu)
twice a week and a dance class once a week.

I'm thinking the dance class (we do a different style each week) is helping a lot with how I move and my body awareness and cardio, and the MMA is helping with "fight energy/flow" strength, fight conditioning, power.

(I haven't been swimming in ages, and have been doing the dance only a couple weeks, but the MMA and Moi Thai -which I've dropped as our sca fight night has changes- since August. This past year I have NOT been sca fighting as much as I'd have like due to hand injury and elbow surgery, so have been ding minimal sca anything since sept.)
_________________
Adwen Wrenn, Squire to Sir Hrothgar Thorvaldsson

[BessGoodblack]

Kendo. Real Kendo through one of the affiliated governing bodies. I do this.

Having said that, going into Kendo with the intention to improve your SCA fighting would be a bad idea. It would lead to improvements for certain. It would teach you to be more quick and more strong. It would also teach you to exercise great economy in your attack. But a person could eventually learn all that with a few adjustments to their SCA training regimine.

In the end, both Kendo and SCA fighting are very different beasts. Attacks that pass muster in SCA heavy weapons are considered weak and glancing in Kendo, or else wholly unnecessary, especially when any wrist flipping is involved. We attack to simulate a one-blow kill. Similarly, there is little to no defense involved. The philosophy in Kendo encourages us to approach a match as though our (simulated) death is guaranteed and we are only there to ensure that our opponent will die alongside us.

Meanwhile, from what little I have seen in SCA heavy fighting, there appears to be an emphasis on opportunistic striking. Attacks that would only wound are acceptable and encouraged. Similarly, form seems less important when considered against force. In the SCA, a strong enough attack that exhibits poor form or poor spirit could still count as long as the one being struck believed it was good. In Kendo, a blow that is lacking in proper form or proper spirit will mean nothing to your judges.

Unfortunately, you will not get much respect from the average Kendoka if you walk and talk about the two as though they were analagous at all, in part because Kendoka are there to study Kendo and nothing else. We like to keep our Kendo as pure as possible. But if you can go in and keep the two separate in your head while giving it your all? Then it could be good for you and also very fulfilling as a practice.

I cannot post links yet, but this "watch?v=lhQMQWePT5I" is the YouTube video code for an excellent video showing Kendo at a higher level. That would be some high ranking women competing in Kendo right there. Watch what Kawagoe does. In a real battle both would die. I imagine you can see the difference.



From a pure cross training perspective, I imagine that the same would hold true for SCA as it does for Kendo and European fencing. Focus on plyometrics and lifting, emphasizing those exercises that improve your core and upper body strength.

- Bess Goodblack

[audax]

Bess, it is quite the opposite. You have to hit with great force for blows to be called good in many areas. Glancing blows and blows powered only by the wrist or arm do not have sufficient power to be called good through armour. Most kendoists that I know who've tried SCA combat have had to revise their power upward and use very different techniques to find success in the SCA.

The bokken is a two handed weapon, and has a distal taper, unlike most of the rattan batons used in SCA combat, which are cylindrical. Most people in the SCA fight single handed sword and sheild, which requires a completely different skill set than kendo. Two handed weapons forms are also popular but again, swinging a rattan polearm is a different beast than swinging a bokken.

We are also seeking to emulate the chivalric combats of Western Europe, not Japan. Western Europe has it's own set of martial arts. I'll refer you to the many fechtbuchs that are available on the web to find examples.

You should really watch ALOT more SCA video, from all across the kingdoms across weapons forms. The SCA is very complex and the skill level of high level practitioners is very great. Kendo, while a great martial art, is not one of the better cross training venues for what we do.

The best training for SCA combat is SCA combat and drills that focus on that. Strength trainiing should also be included in the regimen.
_________________
Martel le Hardi
squire to Meser Lyonel Oliver Grace, fostered to Sir Gaston de Clermont
-------------------------------------------------------

The Minstrel's Champion

[BessGoodblack]

[audax]

[Corby de la Flamme]

Anything is better than nothing.

That said, there are two subsets of martial arts that I've noticed through the years of instructing new fighters: Those that help and help, and those that help and hinder.

In other words, all arts improve conditioning and ability to learn to learn physical skills, but some forms get in the way of SCA combat and some don't.

Help and help:
Japanese Karate
Boxing
Aikido
Kendo (though there is a bit of hindering)
Judo
Fencing

Help and hinder:
TKD
Wu-Shu and all those chinese dance-y arts with weird stances.

If I don't list it, I either have never had a student who did it, or the style made no real difference.

[Colète]

Oops, just saw this thread after starting a new one on alternate sports.


As for martial arts, I have a background in several. Mostly soft styles, and primarily consisting of Tai Chi Chuan. It translates over a bit… especially between dragon/tiger stance for defense transitioning into offense.

[Daryll_Harper]

Boxing will be good.

[SisterAngelika]

Train like an athlete for your sport. Stretching, Balance, Plyometric & Explosive Movements, Strength Train, Cardio, Cool Down And stretch it back out. These things apply to all sports. The truly successful fighters that I know all came from others sports and all train like athletes, in addition to training for their/our sport of fighting. I recommend checking out Smittydeisel on youtube for some idea of how MMA athletes train.