thegirlsclub

Jesmond · Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:59 am Post subject:

OK. I'm guessing that stance diagram is just completely misleading. Is this you, Sir Corby?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7qagZMvkME

I am not seeing what is happening in that diagram above happening in this video when you are throwing a blow at all. Do you agree?

You have to understand that when somebody posts that stance diagram, women of the world get up of the couch and actually try to stand like that and try to throw. Btw, feel free to do that right now. Stand with your right toes in a line with your left heel, with your feet perpendicular. Now turn your body like you were trying to rotate through as you throw a shot. Don't lift your heel.

You will immediately see why we were unconvinced by this instruction. Can we start again? Do you have some video of people using that style that might be helpful to watch? Thanks!
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Jesmond · Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:36 pm Post subject:

Ok, I found this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ANVykrJPBc

And you do assume a modified version of the diagramed stance when you start, when you throw the first shot, and when you reset, although it does not appear your feet are in the extreme perpendicular arrangement as drawn above. You do not appear to actually throw from even the modified version of the stance most of the time.

The guy in white appears to be trying to throw from there more often.

Do you agree?
_________________
First authorized: 1996 - 2000
Re-authorized: 2006 - now
Last event: Coronation
Next event: Border Raids
The Misery Tour: You'll wish you had less fun.

Corby de la Flamme · Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:48 pm Post subject:

Yup!

The guy in white is Joscelin. His footwork is better than mine!

I had never seen that Ymir video before, thanks for linking it.

The "canonical" Oldcastle stance is as diagrammed. Most people modify it somewhat. I try to stand with my back foot somewhere between the heel and the ball on that center line. That's what I usually teach.

My footwork is sloppy, no doubt about it. I haven't been in really competitive form for over a year. I'll look back through some of my videos & see who I've got being closer to proper.

Here's one: Two guys I train. Philip, with the center grip, is making some severe mistakes with his upper body, but both of them have their feet mostly right starting at 0:45

http://www.youtube.com/user/SirCorby#p/u/21/65lVfP9FEEs

audax · Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:32 am Post subject:

No one in Ansteorra fights that way with any success. It looks like what our newbies do until they learn to move and throw a shot well. I'm really unconvinced by this.
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Martel le Hardi
squire to Meser Lyonel Oliver Grace, fostered to Sir Gaston de Clermont
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Cunian · Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:48 am Post subject:

I've lived next to Oldcastle central for years, so...

You cannot just try to copy it and make it work. You also cannot take some pieces of it you like and make them work. It is a system that is incredibly non-intuitive and somebody switching to it or otherwise starting it will get their lunch money taken for some time until they get all the stuff working fairly well. Then they will suddenly jump in success.

I know it looks funky. I know you try and stand that way or move that way and feel like you're going to fall down. I know that Oldcastle fighters generally deviate from canon by greater or lesser degrees after they have learned the canon. I do not believe it to be the one true way. But I also know it can be pretty bloody effective.

(And I've never seen a novice who's not been taught anything do anything even close. I've got no idea where you came up with that one.)

audax · Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:12 pm Post subject:

"(And I've never seen a novice who's not been taught anything do anything even close. I've got no idea where you came up with that one.)"

Are you addressing me? I'm saying that video, if it is representative of Oldcastle style, resembles what they do until they get more coordinated no matter what they are being taught. Perhaps you haven't seen many Ansteorran novices since you don't live here.

I'd like to see video of this style being effectively utilized so I can know what that looks like. I have no intention of ever using it, I'm just curious what it looks like when it is done right. I'd also be interested in understanding the basic philosophy behind it.
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Martel le Hardi
squire to Meser Lyonel Oliver Grace, fostered to Sir Gaston de Clermont
-------------------------------------------------------

The Minstrel's Champion

Cunian · Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:28 pm Post subject:

I can't see much reason why Ansteorran novices should be different than Atlantian novices. It's just not very comfortable or natural-feeling stuff to do and I can't figure anyone doing it without being taught it.

But as to video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j8e6jaKOJ0

At 4:00 Joscelin is fighting Count Sinclair.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dHouWy6qH4&NR=1

And at 6:16 here.

You will note instances - particularly during speed advances where he breaks out of the Oldcastle movement. It's a very old style that was developed during a more static era, and a speedy advance is pretty difficult within the highly refused stance. Oldcastle is their ideal - in practice everyone breaks with it under the pressure of a challenging bout. Jos does really a very good job of sticking with the program.

Philosophy- I dunno. I'd guess something along the lines of that through a highly refused stance with shield extended far in front of you and superior positioning it should be possible for you to be safe from their blows while being able to throw your own.

audax · Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:21 pm Post subject:

Jesus Christ. When I try to be diplomatic people don't understand damn thing I'm saying, so I'll just come out with it: it looks like what novices here do because it looks awkward and clumsy. Even when someone is doing it "right" like Joscelyn. It's as enjoyable as knee fighting which is to say it sucks.

Why do it when there are several other methods that are just as successful but are more graceful and approachable?

Willy T, Afshin, Ragnar, Theron, Sinclair etc etc etc violate all kinds of Oldcastle rules (most obviously back heel off the ground) and seem pretty successful. Afshin in particular is a joy to watch because he is so mobile. That is what I aspire to, not being a bump on log.
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Martel le Hardi
squire to Meser Lyonel Oliver Grace, fostered to Sir Gaston de Clermont
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rauokinn · Senior Club Member Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 484 : Items

Audax -- if you like mobile, search for Octamasades on youtube and watch some of his fights -- his fighting is absolutely beautiful.

audax · Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:16 pm Post subject:

Thank you
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Martel le Hardi
squire to Meser Lyonel Oliver Grace, fostered to Sir Gaston de Clermont
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The Minstrel's Champion

rauokinn · Senior Club Member Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 484 : Items

Especially for Audax:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdeFT3a4O4M

Octamasades is in the red

audax · Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:13 pm Post subject:

pretty pretty pretty
_________________
Martel le Hardi
squire to Meser Lyonel Oliver Grace, fostered to Sir Gaston de Clermont
-------------------------------------------------------

The Minstrel's Champion