thegirlsclub

[freiman the minstrel]

Gentles,

I am treading dangerous ground here. I am about to take a writing class from a professor that I respect (but don't like) who is a student of anglo saxon literature, from King's College, Oxford. I need to have my stuff lined up, or this guy will fail to give me an A. He gave me a B last time I took a course from him, and it is the only B I have received since returning to school.

I am getting ready by preparing sources for an essay on roles of women in literature. Because I am in the SCA, I have a societal advantage in certain ways, and I can count on certain educated people to help me find sources and quotes that help a lot.

The class (if the last one is a good guide) will be graded on four essays. I want to do one on the personification of women in romantic chivalric literature.

I want to use as a thesis for the essay (probably fourteen pages) that the personification of women as objects of adoration in 19th century romantic literature is as objectifying as 21st century hard core porn. In each case, the subject is an image (in one case, literary, in the other photographic) of a woman. In each case, certain aspects of the woman is
drastically overstated and exaggerated toward a certain end. In the case of the chivalric consort, she exaggerated for inspiration. In the case of hard core porn, she is exaggerated for profit.

Each one ignores the realities of the woman in question. The Queen of Love and Beauty doesn't, for instance, fart, or ever tell dirty jokes. Porn queens are not expected to make good, nutritious breakfasts for their kids in the morning before commuting off to a day of moral turpitude and debased debauchery. In short, the image is not really a woman, but rather an image of some imaginary aspect of womanhood.

What I need from you guys is this: Do you have some literary source material that talks about women as the personification of, for instance, the image of love and beauty? Do you have anthing that talks about female characters as unrealistic, perfect beings that are somehow better than human?

Thanks

f
_________________
Surf less, fight more

[audax]

Check out Troubadour poetry or songs from ~11th-12th century. This around the time of the development of the Chivalric ideal in the High Middle Ages.

The frequent re-telling of the Arthurian legends that re-invent Gwennifyr/Guenivere.

It's the Eternal Madonna/Whore thing.

Hell, one could make a good case for Penelope in the Odyssey as a Madonna figure. Aside from Odysseus's Nurse, she is the only woman who remains inccoruptible despite great pressure from the Suitors and her own desire for a husband, in the liklihood that Odysseus is dead.

Hope these help.
_________________
Martel le Hardi
squire to Meser Lyonel Oliver Grace, fostered to Sir Gaston de Clermont
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The Minstrel's Champion

[Cunian]

Freiman -

Were you wanting period stuff? - as Audax said there's lots.
Or were you wanting 19th century chivalric romance? - which is what I had read it as you looking for.

I think there may be an argument for the 19th century stuff being a continuation of "traditional" literary women as women emerged as 'player characters' in literature rather slowly. (Though certainly there were early novels such as Moll Flanders.) But that is a huge argument to make and I think you'd do better mostly sticking to a tighter thesis.

[Jesmond]

If you are looking for 19th century, I would think any and all of the female characters in The White Company would work.

[Jesmond]

Men of Iron too.

[freiman the minstrel]

Actually, at this point, I didn't have the money for the class this semester, and it looks like I will have to wait. I am super bummed about that, because Dr Sola is a really good writing teacher.

I don't particularly like him, but he is really good.

So, while I think that the essay is worth writing, I don't think that I will be writing it this week.

I do believe that the whole "embodiment of love and beauty" is effectively objectification, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

Thanks,
f
_________________
Surf less, fight more

[audax]

Humans objectify. It's just something we do and is neither bad nor good, like many things. It depends on what you do with it or if it is all that you do with another human.
_________________
Martel le Hardi
squire to Meser Lyonel Oliver Grace, fostered to Sir Gaston de Clermont
-------------------------------------------------------

The Minstrel's Champion