thegirlsclub

[audax]

There is no way we could get away with men only tourneys.

I think that is a good reason not to have female only tourneys. Other than that, fight anyone, anytime, anywhere.
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Martel le Hardi
squire to Meser Lyonel Oliver Grace, fostered to Sir Gaston de Clermont
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The Minstrel's Champion

[noneyet]

Ladies, i bid you good morning. this question is not being asked for the purpose of offending anyone nor is it intended to be sexist in any way. i am in fact a newbie in the sca and am therefore asking as many questions as i can about every subject. and i can assure the ladies that i'm not a troll nor am i here to cause trouble or start a fight. i'm here because i want to learn a much as possible. Ok, i only have 4 questions: and none of them is intended to offend in any way.

1. Are there currently any ladies who fight in ladies only tournaments and nothing else? And what would be your opinion of any lady/s who made that choice?

2. If when entering into mixed gender fighting, if a lady should make a choice never to fight a man for whatever reason what would be your opinion of that decision, and could any of you respect her decision?

3. Has any lady fighter ever encountered a man who flat out refused to fight a woman because of her gender? If so, what was your reaction? Did you find that you were able to respect his decision? If a lady fighter has never encountered such a man but was to do so in the future, would you be willing to accept his decision without question or argument?

4. As any lady ever encountered either a man or woman who openly stated that women had no business being a fighter and/or that women did not belong in fighting? Should you ever encounter such a man or woman would you be as willing to respect their opinion as you would expect them to respect your opinion?

This last question is being asked because there are both men and women in the SCA who are strongly opposed to women being allowed to fight. But as a newbie, which I am, i spend alot of time just listening to the old hands talking, as i found that i can learn quite a bit just doing that. but in doing so, I have from time to time overheard remarks made by men and women in regards to "women have no damn business fighting in the first place". Women fighters, upon hearing this, become extremely hostile. I have even seen cases of women fighters threatening to beat up or intentionally hurt any man or woman who says she has no right to fight. But on the other hand demands that these very same men and women respect her right to fight And her choice to fight.

also, because i've had so much trouble on other web sites and forums being labled a troll, anong other things, in order to avoid contriversey i will not reply to any message posted in responce to this message except to ask more, or to answer, questions from the ladies.

and may each and every one of you have a pleasant and safe day.


noneyet(name. still working on that) LOL

[Cunian]

[freiman the minstrel]

[noneyet]

Once again I must clearly state that absolutely positively nothing I say is intended to be offensive to any man or woman in this forum. It is even more important that the women here understand, since this is a forum for women fighters, that there is no intent to be offensive to any woman or girl in this forum. I also want it known that I'm not here to start a fight, nor am I trying to be sexist, nor am I a troll.

Based on information I have read in this forum and I have been reading it intently for several days, it appears that upwards of five or more years there has been a ladies only tourney. I've also read a few posted messages where the ladies have said that no one could get away with a man's only tourney and/or competition. And there lies the question.

If a man, any man, who was a member of the SCA asked that a man's only tourney and/or competition be set up the SCA would have to approve such request. Otherwise the SCA
would be guilty of gender discrimination. Even if the ladies only tourney was immediately canceled altogether it would not change anything. The SCA would still have to approve such a request for a man's only tourney at and/or competition for at least the the duration of time the ladies journey existed. Now I'm not saying that this will happen. What I am saying is that it could happen.

The question being, how would the female membership of the SCA react to such a request. And could the female membership fully respect the rights of men to participate in such tourney and/or competition without demanding the right to participate even though you're not a man? And how would you, as a woman, react if you were told "no this is a man's only tourney as such you are not allowed to participate." Remember ladies, no offense is intended here, this is simply a hypothetical situation based on what could happen. So please don't get mad.

noneyet (I don't know about you but that just doesn't sound very nice to me. So with the administrators permission from here on out I am going to sign with the name "Commander". Until such time as my SCA name has been chosen and approved.) And may everyone have a pleasant day.

[Cunian]

Sure, they could hold one. Note that the OVERWHELMING majority, (if not all of the actually successful ones), of women's tournies held have been at major, (1 week + long), wars, at which there are multiple venues for fighting at any given time. If they had a guys-only tournament at such an event I wouldn't have a particular issue - there'd be other people I could fight, just as there are during the ladies tourney. If a friend fought in it, I would probably tease him about how he just couldn't take the competition from us girls. (BTW, I get teased the same way when I do occasionally enter the women's tourney.)

[audax]

It would be nice if you were to tell what your purpose is in asking these particular questions.

YOu state you are not a troll and are not trying to offend. Okay, great. What are you trying to do?

As to your questions:
1) I'm sure there are some women who do only female only tourneys. That is their choice but A) it really limits how often they can fight and thus B) do themselves a disservice.

2) Why would someone enter a mixed gender competition and then not fight men? I would not respect such a decision but I'd accept it as their prerogative. I might express my opinion that it makes no sense to do such a thing.

3) Yes lady fighters have encountered men who would not fight women. I have not had this happen. If it did, I assume he would forfeit the fight to me and thus would I get to move on in the competition. Too bad for him.

4) I'll accept anyones right to have an opinion but if it is based upon stupidity I feel I am under no obligation to respect it.

Here's the thing: I have no problem with you having whatever dumbass or well reasoned opinion you want to hold. That is the right of all free people. There's not really much I can do about it anyway. I am not under any obligation to respect that opinion or change what I do because of it. I will get very hostile if because of your opinion you attempt to cause me harm or interfere with my rights. Telling me I have no right to do something as a free adult is most certainly going to piss me off. If someone could offer me a good, empirical reason why women should not be allowed to fight, I might give it a listen. But this is America and I have the right to do most anything I please, don't I? Maybe the "women have no damned business fighting" could get the clue that my business is anything I choose to make it.

Everybody has an opinion. So what? Is the opinion based on some sort of research, a fact, anything empirical? Or is it based on thouroughly refuted and outdated sexist crap?

If someone wanted to set up thier own men's only tournament, I don't think I'd care. If it were a sanctioned SCA event I sincerely doubt the BOD would tolerate it because it opens them up for a discrimination lawsuit. I don't really see the point of having gender segregated tourneys.
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Martel le Hardi
squire to Meser Lyonel Oliver Grace, fostered to Sir Gaston de Clermont
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The Minstrel's Champion

[noneyet]

Before I joined the SCA I did several months of research and watch the local group do their fighter practice in the local park. And to say that I was appalled at the sight of men beating on women would have to be an understatement. I was even more stunned to see where women could win a fight with a man and a man simply let her get away with it.

Since I was 19 years old i made a solemn vow that I would never hit a woman when I started martial arts class. And I never did. I always flatly refused to spar with women because of my eyes that would have made me a woman beater, which is one of the lowest forms of life on Earth.

But when I joined numerous forums and Yahoo groups I found that there is a considerable difference of opinion between men and women on the subject of women being allowed to fight. In fact, our kingdom seneschal described it as an extremely sensitive subject.

So I decided to ask several questions such as these to see just how divisive and sensitive the subject is. I figured that with the members of the SCA bound by a code of honor then I should be able to get some interesting information on the subject. But when the subject was brought up, the code of honor was thrown out the window. Both men and women become extremely hostile to the point of becoming nasty. Now this is the kind of crap one might expect to find say during a street riot, but not among honorable people.

The answers I have received here are without a doubt the most polite and courteous replies I've had yet. I thank each and every one of you are having a lot thicker skin than everyone else I've tried to talk to. You ladies should be proud of yourself. As by your conduct you have proven what I was hoping to find, that regardless of how sensitive the subject can be, people can still respond as adults. You women have truly proven yourself to be honorable and I thank you for that.

Should you have any more questions please feel free to ask. You cannot offend me with your opinion no matter what it is. but I do ask that you do not pin labels on me such as referring to me as a troll. Having that label pinned on me is extremely offensive because it is something I guarantee you I am not. And may you have a very pleasant day

[Brigitta]

[freiman the minstrel]

Actually, oddly enough, there are very few organizations in the knowne world that could set up a "men's only" tourney and get away with it.

House Ironrose could.

We could.

I'm not sure that anybody else could.

f
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Surf less, fight more

[noneyet]

i'm pretty well finished with answering questions for the day. at 6M i watch the news, 7M fix supper, 8M till midnight watch tv and talk to friends and always talk to mom who is in her 70s and not in the best of health. so i always check on her. so i will return to answer your questions in the morning. and i will do everything possible to privide you with an answer that is not offensive to any woman here. and may each and every one of you have a very pleasant evening.

commander

[audax]

[Jesmond]

1. I am not aware of any. Although I suppose it is theoretically possible. Such tournaments are rare. They are usually only held at major wars, such as Pennsic, Estrella, and maybe Lillies. Most fighters do not attend all of these. Which would mean less than 3 opportunities to fight a year. I would think a female fighter who only fought 3 or fewer times a year would have great difficulty maintaining the skill required to remain authorized, much less be competitive.

2. I would find this strange since where I am geographically located, even having another female opponent is very rare. If by respect her decision, you mean accept and not insist she fight men, sure. She is in charge of her own person and able to make her own decisions. However, if by respect, you mean regard or esteem -- then, no. I would think she was foolish.

3. Yes. When informed a fighter was not going to fight and would yield to me, I nodded, turned my back and walked away to prepare for my next bout. If by respect, you mean not attack him without his consent, then yes. If respect, you mean regard or admire -- then no. I certainly would not question him or try to argue. In my experience guys who don't want to fight women are not satisfied with quietly yielding. They want a lot of attention for it. They want to tell everyone about it, and discuss it at great length, and savor their refusal. I would not protest. I have no desire to associate with him or even let the shine of my own renown glint upon him by mere physical proximity.

4. Sure. I can accept that they hold this opinion. People believe all kinds of things. Some people believe that 75 million years ago Xenu brought billions of people to Earth in spacecraft resembling Douglas DC-8 airliners, stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. Do I hold these beliefs in any regard or esteem? No.

[ratslayer]

Interesting questions. While I respect the whole "never hit a girl" concept, I have found that most men who truly respect women will respect my choice to put on armor and get hit. Those who have serious issues with it generally do not look to women as being equal but instead think of them as the "lesser" sex. I gave up worrying about them a long time ago. I put on armor because I love to fight. The whole concept behind honor and chivalry bring chills when I thinkg about it and I'm not about to let someone deny me the joy of fighting. If they don't want to fight me it is their loss.

I have yet to meet a woman who only fights women. Even those just starting out have some interaction with the men. It would be awfully boring and lonely if I only chose to fight women. I'd suck even worse then I do now!

Kelwin
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The GOOFY way is the TRUE way!!!!!

[Jesmond]