thegirlsclub

[Cunian]

Assuming a hypothetical case where a person generally delivers blows which are lighter than those of their playmates. - Do you think that person should aim to acknowledge at the same level their playmates do, or do you think that person should acknowledge at a level where their own blows would be acknowledged? What do you think will happen in a bout where both opponents acknowledgement level is heavier than their throwing level? Do you think higher acknowledgement or lower acknowledgement leads to greater development of skill? How would you go about encouraging a commonly agreed upon level of blow force and acknowledgement?

[Wrenn]

I think it depends on the calebration of the area.

If two new fighters who were throwing super light shots were fighting each other, we as coaches should be encouraging them both to throw harder and take only "good" shots. Otherwise the whole thing starts looking a bit like fencing (now don't get me wrong rapier is cool, but it's a different game)

Also if I as a coach coddle someone who is weaker and let them think they are doing fine when they start playing with other people several things may happen:
They get angry that people are "rhino-ing" their shots;
they get hurt;
they are shocke out of armour by the power of the blows.

This game can hurt, and it's not fair as a trainer to not show that to people. Now I'm not saying to beat the bejesus out of them, but make sure they know the game they've started playing.

It's also not fair for me as a trainer to not believe my trainee can throw a "good" powerful blow, we all can with good technique, 65pound 8 year olds can, so if I can't help them to learn to throw a good shot that's on me as a trainer and I should help them find someone who can teach them.
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Adwen Wrenn, Squire to Sir Hrothgar Thorvaldsson

[Cunian]

Perhaps I am not being clear. Yes, virtually anyone can learn the mechanics of producing a good blow. Producing a good blow in a combat situation, where both giving and receiving parties are moving, can be a vastly harder problem. Because of this everyone's blows fall lightly now and then, due to improper or rushed development, people moving in past or out of the blow, etc, etc, etc. Some people's blows fall harder than others, not always due to strength or size as much as technique and their ability to anticipate the relative movement of the players to place the blow correctly. But strength and size are not irrelevant factors, impinging on the angle of blows thrown and the chance of a non-ideal blow still being acknowledgeable. People are taught to acknowledge blows most generally by others. There is no inherent connection with their own degree of successful delivery of good blows. If - as happens - two people who have relatively low percentages of good blows successfully delivered fight each other, one will get a very "ugly" fight with a lot of connection which isn't good. Should these people moderate their acknowledgement to acheive a "cleaner" fight? Should they accept the ugly fight and accept that eventually a blow will occur which is satifactory?

[audax]

I think you should only call shots that are good in accordance with the fighting culture of the area and in accordance with your own good judgement.

Don't take tinky-winky crap. Throw as hard as you can muster

I like to be hit hard enough that there is no question in my mind. I try to throw that hard, as well.

One thing I've learned is not to throw a bunch of shots in the hope one out of the many will land hard enough. I try conserve my energy and throw a telling blow at the right time. If I know my feet aren't right or the angle is off, I don't waste energy trying to muscle the shot or otherwise force it.

Now sometimes, if a blow was on the lighter side but came in clean, unblocked and well placed, I'll take it. It's my fault I didn't block it and as far as I'm concerned, my opponent bested me.
_________________
Martel le Hardi
squire to Meser Lyonel Oliver Grace, fostered to Sir Gaston de Clermont
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The Minstrel's Champion

[sven]

Very interresting topic.

Slightly off topic;
I am a firm believer that the force we throw blows with should be roughly 150% of what we would accept as good.
The point being exactly as specified that stuff happens and all the force sent away does not always impact upon your opponent.


Over to the more precise topic at hand.

I generally value the cleanliness of the fight higher than victory, that being said I have been involved in fights that might have looked ugly (and some have likely had blows I did not accept that I maybe should have) but I see that as big shortcomings from me and try harder to make it clean and nice. I have and will take light shots if the opponent can get them in just to save my reputation. But afterwards I would strongly encourage more "throw through the target" since that is what it is about in almost all cases. So I guess my answer to the question is that the two opponents who throw blows of generally 90% of good level should take that and not let the fight turn into something that people talk about later.
But they better get their act together and up their force as time goes by, or they will likely be hurt by someone who plays differently.

I really do not like fighting someone whose normal level of force is just barely enough to be good. I prefer to wake up on the ground knowing that "that was GOOD!". The feeling of not knowing if I acknowledged all blows that I should have is among the worst I know of, it really hurts since I want to do "right" and ignoring blows is plain wrong.

If 100% is what should be acceptable as a good blow at what level would you think a normal blow should be ? 120%, 200% 101% ?
How is it in your area ? I would say that normally in Nordmark we are at 110% or 120%, the difference between a blow that lands on you that the opponent is happy with and what would be considered light is really too close, it becomes judgment calls every time and I find that anoying, so I advocate hitting harder and taking a little lighter to increase the span.

(I fight in mostly some soft stuff, having to argue with marshals often when inspecting, so I am not armored to my teeth, just to point that out

/Sven

[Jesmond]

[Mazaalai the Bear]

(Disclaimer: I think I will use Jesimond's numbering of the question. I likes it.

Also, I speak from my own SCA life and from my area, which i have been told by others at wars and the like that we hit like moose. I take no claim to know about every area in the Knowne World.

Arrogant as I am, i will never make that claim.... much....maybe.)


In my opinion, there should be a personal calebration by their teachers if the fighter is new. lower the power and work at their level as a fighter to increase their skill. When they get in a good hit go up a notch or so and calebrate them where they need too be.

If the fighter is experienced there is a certain amount of... "You should know better" involved.

I suppose there is an area of Grace where the lighter swinger is involved. If a higher level of skill is utilized. Even if the shot is lighter then i would call, if the shot is clean, well executed, and has me to rights, i and anyone i know and respect WILL call it.

But it isnt exactly they way i would go.

And the second part of your question is indeed pretty ugly. Especially if they throw and call at the SAME level as each other. It does end up getting to be the sort of fight no one is proud of.

I suppose the best area of the game for this question to really arise is in the "not a newbie and not a squire area" or really into the squire level because though its not best a lot of "strong arm" young guys can get a red belt with the idea that the knight will teach them the skill they need.

You end up getting a few people that WANT to do really well, and mean the best, but don't really know that what they are swinging, doesnt feel like what they are calling, thats a while 'nother calebration. I know I didn't know that swing A was really shot B in force.

And as for the third part, it really depends on how you are trying to develop the skill. My experiences are from a natural Rino. So I had to be calebrated DOWN on acknowledgement My own experiences were call the standard and work on your defence, when you learn to stay alive, work on killing the fighter in front of you.


Aaaaand for number four I really think it just sort of evens itself up, as long as everyone has the fun and enjoyment of the game as a priority and not breaking femurs.

I likes my femurs....